What is the Vision

[Copamundial]

Are we going to rip up the philosophy and blueprint that has been ingrained at playing levels and age groups at the club, if so I fear for the future.

Let’s be honest about it, it’s that philosophy that has attracted players to the club, it now seems that we’re on a completely different path and it’s sad to see….more than one way to play…agreed but I know which style of football I prefer to watch

As somebody said in a different thread, it was that style that kept us in the Premier League for seven seasons, even after that hiding against Man City in that first game fans took a sense of pride in the way we played…more than one way yes, but I want us to play the Swansea way.

 

[Dwy Goes Bren]

It’s grim. Tactical innovations and modifications are one thing. Ripping up everything and reverting to percentage football is nuts. Duff makes Cooperball look like Pep era Barcelona. At least there was some care with the ball and phases of control!

Our style gives us certain advantages in the transfer market and the fact that the age groups play the style SHOULD allow us to integrate academy graduates into the first team. I think this is one of the big failings in recent years. All managers are risk averse to an extent, but blooding these youngsters should be an essential part of any manager’s role. There are so many great young players who are never given a fair crack of the whip, and fans are too ready to write them off after a poor performance.

However, giving us a hyopthetical footballing advantage is not the only reason to keep our style. The bottom line is that football is entertainment. As a kid I was happy enough to watch us battle out dreadful games at the Vetch in the fourth division, but I wouldn’t cross the road to watch that level of garbage now. I just missed out on the Toshack years so my formative years were the grim period of 1984-2002 The bright spot for me in that era was the Frank Burrows era - plenty of grit but a little bit of style as well. Winning isn’t everything for me - I found our promotion under Hollins and our two play off seasons under Cooper to be largely dismal affairs (but the football was light years ahead of what Duff has served up so far).

Win, lose or draw I want to see my team control possession and try to play fluent attacking football. From game to game we may need to change tactics, park the bus, play on the counter, win ugly. But an expedient approach for a single game cannot become the philosophy of the club. I demand to be entertained. I will not waste my time and money following the club if it aspires to play a third rate version of percentage football. It’s just pain, pain and no gain.

 

[swansvalleyjack]

Good post. Where is the strategy I ask myself. Where is the entertainment. Toshack years had Leighton and Jimmy for one example, bums off seats. Then Nathan and Angel, ditto. Pace going forward. Toshack and Roberto, young progressive managers. Brendan, Laudrup, Potter.

I know since then we've had Cooper and Martin - yes, with some "success", but on the whole tbh, I've found it boring football. Martin in particular took our passing game to a new "level" I never want to see again.

But now we have boring and unsuccessful football under Duff. Yes I know we have under-investment from the owners, but where is the playing strategy going forward. What are our under 21's , 18's etc thinking ?

Tbh, Division 1 beckons and maybe we try and start all over again, with a good mix of youngsters. And hopefully some entertainment, cos I've been bored overall for the last 4 years.

 

[cmajack]

Good post. Where is the strategy I ask myself. Where is the entertainment. Toshack years had Leighton and Jimmy for one example, bums off seats. Then Nathan and Angel, ditto. Pace going forward. Toshack and Roberto, young progressive managers. Brendan, Laudrup, Potter.

I know since then we've had Cooper and Martin - yes, with some "success", but on the whole tbh, I've found it boring football. Martin in particular took our passing game to a new "level" I never want to see again.

But now we have boring and unsuccessful football under Duff. Yes I know we have under-investment from the owners, but where is the playing strategy going forward. What are our under 21's , 18's etc thinking ?

Tbh, Division 1 beckons and maybe we try and start all over again, with a good mix of youngsters. And hopefully some entertainment, cos I've been bored overall for the last 4 years.

Please don't mention Potter in with that fantastic group of managers. He had 1 season here, with a 20 goal a season striker (Mcburnie) and Dan James and other ex Premier league players, and couldn't get us in the play offs. IMO , he didn’t do a very good job here.

 

[JackSomething]

Please don't mention Potter in with that fantastic group of managers. He had 1 season here, with a 20 goal a season striker (Mcburnie) and Dan James and other ex Premier league players, and couldn't get us in the play offs. IMO , he didn’t do a very good job here.

I wouldn't put Potter alongside those other names either, but I will offer one argument in his defence.

We sold or loaned out the following first-team players in the summer after relegation: Fabianski, Mawson, Carroll, Clucas, Jordan Ayew, Andre Ayew, Fernandes, Ki. We also saw the departures of other players who were either fringe players or previously first-teamers like Rangel, Britton, Mesa, Bartley, Amat, Montero.

That's a hell of a lot of turnover and it's not as if they were replaced with a whole lot of quality (Dhanda, Asoro, McKay, Celina, Declan John and Carter-Vickers). Yes we had the likes of Roberts, James, Rodon and McBurnie to come in, but they had learning to do initially.

There were signs we were set for a better promotion challenge had Potter stuck around for another season. His subsequent work with Brighton does nothing to argue with the opinion that he's a fine manager. Granted it went poorly at Chelsea, but he's far from alone in struggling there.

 

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Please don't mention Potter in with that fantastic group of managers. He had 1 season here, with a 20 goal a season striker (Mcburnie) and Dan James and other ex Premier league players, and couldn't get us in the play offs. IMO , he didn’t do a very good job here.

JackSomething makes some good points about Potter, but I think it's worth adding that neither McBurnie and James have looked as good as they did that season (granted James has played at Premier League level since then, but he's generally looked pretty clueless). I don't think we can use their performances that season as a stick to beat Potter with, when I suspect the only reason they looked so good was down to him.

 

[cmajack]

JackSomething makes some good points about Potter, but I think it's worth adding that neither McBurnie and James have looked as good as they did that season (granted James has played at Premier League level since then, but he's generally looked pretty clueless). I don't think we can use their performances that season as a stick to beat Potter with, when I suspect the only reason they looked so good was down to him.

I still think with the players at his disposal Potter should have had us at least in the play offs.

 

[JackSomething]

I still think with the players at his disposal Potter should have had us at least in the play offs.

With the amount of upheaval at the club that summer and the huge change in the playing staff, I'm honestly not sure that Pep or Klopp would have gotten us in the playoffs.

After being unsurprisingly inconsistent all season, we ended with a run of 5 wins, 3 draws and 1 defeat in the last 9 games. Brighton having the vision to poach him that summer may have been a real sliding doors moment for this club.

 

[swansvalleyjack]

Sliding doors moment is so spot on. Then Cooperball. Martinball. Duffball.

But not helped either by lack of interest and investment by the owners. A downward spiral in player and managerial quality.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

It’s grim. Tactical innovations and modifications are one thing. Ripping up everything and reverting to percentage football is nuts. Duff makes Cooperball look like Pep era Barcelona. At least there was some care with the ball and phases of control!

Our style gives us certain advantages in the transfer market and the fact that the age groups play the style SHOULD allow us to integrate academy graduates into the first team. I think this is one of the big failings in recent years. All managers are risk averse to an extent, but blooding these youngsters should be an essential part of any manager’s role. There are so many great young players who are never given a fair crack of the whip, and fans are too ready to write them off after a poor performance.

However, giving us a hyopthetical footballing advantage is not the only reason to keep our style. The bottom line is that football is entertainment. As a kid I was happy enough to watch us battle out dreadful games at the Vetch in the fourth division, but I wouldn’t cross the road to watch that level of garbage now. I just missed out on the Toshack years so my formative years were the grim period of 1984-2002 The bright spot for me in that era was the Frank Burrows era - plenty of grit but a little bit of style as well. Winning isn’t everything for me - I found our promotion under Hollins and our two play off seasons under Cooper to be largely dismal affairs (but the football was light years ahead of what Duff has served up so far).

Win, lose or draw I want to see my team control possession and try to play fluent attacking football. From game to game we may need to change tactics, park the bus, play on the counter, win ugly. But an expedient approach for a single game cannot become the philosophy of the club. I demand to be entertained. I will not waste my time and money following the club if it aspires to play a third rate version of percentage football. It’s just pain, pain and no gain.

Fabulous post. Exactly where I am on it. Too many people forget that football was invented as a form of entertainment. It's meant to be a couple of hours for you to get out of your own head and just switch off and enjoy.

Managers like Duff and Cooper - Monk was another one - have zero appreciation of this. They will argue they're there to get results, sure. But you won't catch me forking out to watch that bilge.

After we nearly went out of the league, I think it focused a few minds around the club, and part of the attitude was it's been a crappy few years, so let's try and have some fun. Trunds was perhaps the best example of that to begin with, but the sides that followed later on had that in them. That fun has long since gone out of the club under owners who don't care. It's a real shame.

 

[Captain_Sham]

So this is where they all hang out when we lose. Don't worry we will be back to losing ways soon enough.

 

[J_B]

"I demand to be entertained"
I consider myself lucky to have supported this club since 1966 with the amount of entertaining football that has been served up in that time. It's probably less than 30% of seasons though. I'm not talking about success, just entertainment. Most clubs will be way lower than us over that period.
If you demand to be entertained then supporting a football club long term isn't a good investment of your time.

 

[bakajack]

We have looked better with four at the back thats for sure. Is there a consistent style of play and vision that we can see and get behind?

Not yet but it was said in the matchday thread and I agree that the loss of Ntcham was a bigger one than we appreciated until the season began, he was the one player we had who could collect from midfield and create something going forward, especially after the preseason injury to Ginnelly deprived us of him as an option.

He showed us what he was about with that screamer in the cup and the way he was terrorizing the Wednesday left back before they kicked him out of the game in the first half. I am praying the injury isn't serious but the way he was helped off the pitch doesn't fill me with hope.

Patino I think has the potential to play that role, Paterson was his usual enigma - in the first half he was anonymous and the same in the first ten minutes or so of the second but after that he was everywhere. If we could get the Paterson of the first three months of his time here back with the confidence to collect from Grimes and Patino and turn to find our front three then he could solve that dilemma and bring the various pieces of our puzzle together into something coherent.

 

[MrSwerve]

Winning football is entertaining football, generally.

I was bored to tears with much of Cooper’s tenure, but I wonder if it would have been any different if we had full stadiums and not the COVID stuff…watching those games in silence or fake crowd noise was strange.

 

[Nocountryforoldjack]

Winning football is entertaining football, generally.

I was bored to tears with much of Cooper’s tenure, but I wonder if it would have been any different if we had full stadiums and not the COVID stuff…watching those games in silence or fake crowd noise was strange.

We win yesterday but it wasn't very entertaining